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   December 17, 2007

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   Ben said:

   
   

   I disagree. Nobody is judging unbelievers, only judging their doctrine. We are to be aware of the Anti-Christ around us and warn others. Also, the passage you refered to in 1 Corinthians, refers specifically to judging unbelievers in the sense of seperating ourselves from them, which is foolish, because they are not even in the Church. It also has a specific reference to excommunication. We are called to “”Test all things and hold fast to that which is good” 1 Thessalonians 5:21

   So I think that there is nothing wrong with exposing error, even if it is those of unbelievers, so that those who are weak and the faith may not be stumbled into error.

   I haven’t watched the movie yet though, have you? Is it all that bad?

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   December 17, 2007

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   Stephen said:

   
   

   Ben I’m afriad I don’t agree. The last section of 1 Corinthians 5 is not only about excommunication but also about ‘association’. Every single movie that is not produced intentionally with a Christian worldview presents a secular, anti-christ stance whether its implicit or explicit, active or passive – so if you are consistent with your view then you need to boycott all secular media and people which would then bring you into conflict with Paul’s teaching on the subject. Please quote the 1 Thessalonians passage within its context – it is dealing with the churches response to prophecies and works of the Spirit – not the movie productions of atheist books.

   The Gospel exposes error in the non-Christian world – not us. Christ is the judge of the sheep and the goats – not us. We are called to preach the Gospel and maintain the purity of those IN the church. We are called to be discerning and know what is right and wrong as we navigate through this world that does not honour Christ as king but that is different from imposing the law of Christ upon people who do not acknowledge his kingship. His Gospel does that.

   Christians spend far too much time fighting battles that are of secondary importance when the proclamation of the gospel gets left behind. If I started a Facebook group about doing mass evangelism do you think I’d get the same response? No I wouldn’t – you know why – because its much easier for us to sit back and throw rocks at the atheists than to share our lives with the people all around us who don’t know Christ.

   I’m sorry for the brash tone of this comment – I don’t mean you disrespect – its just that I feel quite strongly about this particular issue.

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   December 17, 2007

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   Ben said:

   
   

   No problem, I prefer it if someone says how he feels and feels strongly about what he believes. It is something truly lacking in these days where everything goes.

   I never said that 1 Corinthians 5 doesn’t have to do with ‘association’ as well, but we must be careful to take that idea too far. David says,

   “Blessed is the man who does not walk in the counsel of the wicked…”(Psalm 1:1)

   The New Testament also calls us to meditate on things that are good, and therefore I would be careful about encouraging people to watch a movie that is anti-Christian. Sure, there may be movies which contain anti-Christian influences, but if one is decisevly anti-Christian, I think we need to exercise more caution.

   I don’t think there is any real difference in saying,
   “The Gospel exposes error” and “Not us.”
   We expose error through preaching the gospel. The two cannot be seperated.

   But I must agree with you that we often spend too much time on what NOT to do, instead of what MUST be done…i.e. believe in Christ.

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   December 17, 2007

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   Stephen said:

   
   

   I’m not encouraging people to do and see the movie – I would encourage them to be informed about it (some might argue that you can’t really be informed if you haven’t seen it – but that’s another debate). I’ve been reading a lot of blogs responding to the Golden Compass and I haven’t seen much ‘preaching the gospel’ to expose error – rather I’ve seen calls to boycott – those two are not the same thing.

   My issue is not whether Christians go to see the film or not – my issue rather is the way that many Christians have chosen to respond to this challenge. Personally I found Al Mohler’s advice to be about the best I could track down.

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   December 17, 2007

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   Ben said:

   
   

   I’m sorry if what I said implied that you would encourage people to watch it, that’s not what I meant.

   You said,

   “some might argue that you can’t really be informed if you haven’t seen it.”

   That depends. I might never have heard the false gospel that we are saved by works, but I learn of it by first learning of the right way. We need to be careful of the type of people we are encouraging to watch it. Young believers we must be more careful, more mature believers it could be fine. However, I don’t think Christians should watch it because of the explicit sex scenes in the movie, I don’t think it is helpful if we are to not lust in our hearts. That’s just my opinion now.

   I haven’t yet looked at the Golden Compass group, but it is sad that they are not focusing on the gospel.

   The article you gave by Al Mohler is well balanced I think. Seeing that he is directly attacking the gospel what better thing than to proclaim it in an ever bolder manner.
   Maybe a good group to start would be,

   “Exposing the false gospel of the Golden Compass with a proclomation of the true one”???

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   December 17, 2007

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   BK said:

   
   

   Jeffrey Overstreet also has a very in-depth Q&A which i found really helpful.

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   December 18, 2007

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   Jay said:

   
   

   Christian parents need all the help they can get in deciding what is appropriate for their children. I have no problem with Christians warning other Christian families about any movies that may be counter-productive in their efforts to raise children to have a heart for God. The Golden Compass people have gone out of their way to market the film as reminiscemt of The Chronicals of Narnia. This marketing ploy is absolutley calculated and sinister. And it is particularly disturbing to juxtapose these two works together when their respective world views are the complete opposite. One seeks to encourage faith. The other seeks to kill it.

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   December 18, 2007

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   Steve said:

   
   

   Ben,

   Which explicit sex scenes in the movie?

   I don’t recall any.

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   December 18, 2007

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   Michael said:

   
   

   Al Mohler’s article is a _must_ read for any Christian looking to form an opionion on the Golden Compass (see previous post fo the link). He presents an angle where Christians can use the movie as a hook. The reason the movie does this is that it puts the God debate front and centre, and in fact takes a strong position against the Christian Church, which in our post modern environment is out of place, maybe we can generate some sympathy in this manner from the non christians I mean.

   But I also think that the Christian church is in a dilemma. That the movie has an agenda is undeniable, how the Christian Church responds is the question. They can either oppose and boycott the movie with everything they’ve got which might mean that hollywood is reluctant to make the next two in the series, also means the Church loses opportunities to talk about the issues it raises, but it would mean that such anti-Church/Christian ideas are held out of mainstream cinema at least for a while longer, and thus a small victory for the Church. On the other hand, if it says that this kind of material and opposition is inevitable, and it’s futile to resist they could embrace it and fight the battle having accepted that they cannot slow down the movie machine and the opposition to this kind of thing.

   In Christendom you’re going to get people siding with either one of these two approaches and they’ll have an uneasy rellationship. It would be better two have a united approach, but I don’t think that is workable.

   It will be interesting to see how these movies in fact perform at the box office. It will be a real test of the influence of the “Southern Bible Belt”. The astounding success of the Passion of Christ woke up the studios to the spending power of the religious element. It remains to be seen how much influence they have when they’re opposing something. And if I were a betting man, I’d be backing the Church.

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    December 18, 2007

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    Ben said:

    
    

    HI Steve.

    This is what Mohler said,

    “Is there more to the larger story?

    “Yes, and it has to do with sex. Surprisingly graphic and explicit sex. Pullman believes that the Christian church is horribly repressive about sex and that this is rooted in the idea of the Fall. As he told Hanna Rosin of the Atlantic Monthly, “Why the Christian Church has spent 2,000 years condemning this glorious moment, well, that’s a mystery. I want to confront that, I suppose, by telling a story that the so-called original sin is anything but. It’s the thing that makes us fully human.”

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    December 18, 2007

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    gruntleblog said:

    
    

    A (non church going) friend of mine’s kids were warned at school (via a baptist minister) that the film was ‘only for people who worship the devil.’ My friend (smelling a rat) took her children to see the movie immediately – she said it was wonderful, and if the values that it stood for opposed Christianity; then so did she! (The kids also enjoyed it.)

    (At least she knows that not all Christians think the same.)

    The problem with speaking out against something we know nothing (or little) about is that most often we’ll end up embarrassing ourselves – or putting more well informed and open minded people off Christianity, setting up unnecessary ’stumbling blocks’ to their coming to faith in Jesus Christ. Pullman is very critical of Christianity – but I think we have earned a lot of the criticism that people like Dawkins and Pullman lay at our doors.

    So I’m off to see the movie tonight , and waiting to borrow the books – I need a good read.

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    December 25, 2007

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    Beth deYoung said:

    
    

    The OP wrote, “It puts God-talk on the table and its a great chance to talk about the God who really was killed by non-Christians 2000 years ago.” What God was killed? God has always been alive and always will be alive. Do you refer to the Jew named Jesus who was killed by the Romans? If so, please be direct. Again: God was never nor could be killed.

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    December 28, 2007

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    Stephen said:

    
    

    Yes I am refering to the Jew named Jesus – he is very much God and he was very much killed. Fortunately for all of us he rose again three days later.