Am I an Emerging Threat?

Posted on November 4, 2008 - by Stephen Murray

Well there’s a new blog doing the rounds in South Africa entitled, “The Emerging Threat of the ‘Emerging Church’ in South Africa“. Wow that’s quite a name. The stated purpose of the blog is the following:

‘This blog exposes the problems with the ‘Emerging Church’ Movement – an attempt to merge Christianity with the philosophy of Post-modernism: particularly in South Africa, but is also relevant to the rest of the world.’

Then I glanced down the sidebar and low and behold I found links to posts I’ve recently written under the heading of ‘Blogs on the Emerging Church in South Africa’- now does that make me an emerging threat or is it just because I’ve written about the EC on occasion (both positively and negatively). Not sure. Although the author does seem to be taking quite a number of pot shots at some of the EC guys I’ve interacted with here in South Africa. I’m not sure if his efforts are all that helpful – I’m also not sure all of the people he’s having a go at actually see themselves as part of the EC. Besides that I just think peeps like Roger Saner and Graeme Codrington need a break, they must be a bit tired of opening their inbox every morning to find out that some new blog or Facebook group has been created having a go at them for being heretics. I’ve met Roger and I’ve interacted with Graeme a bit online and I’m just not that sure that they really are heretics – but then maybe I’m an emerging threat too so my two-cents wouldn’t mean to much.

It’s quite strange that there seems to be a little bit of an upsurge of interest in the EC here in South Africa – even google is taking note. I guess that makes sense because South Africa has always tended to be half a pace behind the rest of the western world when it comes to church trends and most other things. I’m also guessing that the fairly large churchy culture that still exists here in South Africa is quite fertile ground for post-everythings to emerge out of. So its not really that much of a surprise. It will be interesting to see what tangible difference actually emerges in the church landscape over the next few years as a result. Till then be on your guard for those threats:)

This entry was posted on Tuesday, November 4th, 2008 at 10:13 am and is filed under Africa, Blogging, Church, Emerging Church, South Africa. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.

13 Comments

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November 4, 2008

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Susan Keegan said:

Course you’re an emerging threat… see blog on second guessing the basics Next you’ll find your musings quoted as proof of heresy.

Good to have you back in cyberspace Mr Married Blogger.
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November 4, 2008

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John said:

Stephen you are hard core man- I was disappointed to find that I was not under suspicion myself You are now my hero. You know you have arrived as a seriously engaging blogger when you are included on the heresy watch type sites..
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November 4, 2008

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Roger Saner said:

Hi Heretic Stephen! You even have a good name for a stoning…maybe we could set up a Facebook event?!

Philip Rosenthal is the guy behind the blog you mention. He is genuinely concerned about the emerging church, in much the same way as you are: that the theological re-definitions cross the boundaries too far, into heresy and apostasy. I think you aren’t worried that it’s gone that far: he is.

Ironically, a blog like his only raises the profile of the emerging conversation in South Africa, although when more and more people say strongly negative things about it, it kinda stops the usefulness of the conversation. Still, that is what it is, and so we continue. I’m quite happy for guys like Graeme and I to cop the criticism, so that others who are doing the “stuff” but under a different name can continue doing it. As long as we’re playing with missional ecclesiology as an outworking of the missio dei, I’m happy

That’s why I’m grateful for a voice like yours, which is orthodox in theology and innovative in practice. I don’t think Philip would have a problem with any of your theology, so I don’t think you’ll get branded a heretic – and you’re doing the “stuff” which South Africa needs.

As for my inbox overflowing with fresh accusations of heresy…well, I’ve responded to Philip almost everywhere I’ve found him commenting. I’ll be interested to see if this develops into any sort of conversation…or not. I’m also in Cape Town next year, and I make a point of trying to have coffee with people who are concerned about what I’m blogging, so maybe I’ll meet up with him then.

I finish up at NieuCommunities in 2 weeks; get married in December; head to Canada for 5 weeks; back in SA in early Feb, and in Cape Town shortly after that to start my new life – hooray! And then I’ll (finally) start blogging more regularly…and will probably think about starting/joining some kind of Cape Town emerging conversation meetup thingy.
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November 4, 2008

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Stephen said:

Hey John – one of your posts was listed on the site yesterday – you’re just as dodgy as me!

Roger – so you moving to Cape Town fulltime next year?
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November 4, 2008

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Philip Rosenthal said:

Dear Stephen

Do I list you as an ‘emerging threat’? Answer: “No”. With regard to your seeing a reference to your blog on the side bar of the ‘Emerging Threat’ blog, this is a listing automatically generated by google blog search of blog articles linked to the subject of the emerging church in South Africa. I am sorry if this may have caused you some offence. The blog search lists blog articles both for and against the emerging church.

Roger Saner has recommended you as someone who I should chat to. Please do contact me at 021-6854500 or 082 6768966 or mail@christianview.org

http://emergingthreat.blogspot.com/

Philip Rosenthal
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November 4, 2008

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Philip Rosenthal said:

Please note I have edited the ‘Emerging threat’ blog to hopefully avoid such misunderstandings in future. Please note also that I did not use the word ‘heresy’, but rather the word ‘unorthodox’. Roger Saner brought in the word ‘heresy’ in a comment and then added some more quotes he thought I might find heretical. I have elsewhere criticised some emerging church opinions as being heretical, but I do not use that word in a shotgun approach to label everyone I disagree with. Make up your own mind about the quotes cited there.

http://emergingthreat.blogspot.com/2008/10/quotes-from-emerging-church.html

God bless

Philip Rosenthal
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November 4, 2008

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Stephen said:

Hi Philip – no offence taken at all. My post was written a bit tongue in cheek in the first place:)
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November 4, 2008

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DysfunctionalParrot said:

I think the Emerging Church is more a result of viral internet marketing than anything. Due to its lack of scholarship and lean towards liberalism, it is destined to die out on its own or be absorbed back into the mainstream.

http://dysfunctionalparrot.wordpress.com/2008/11/03/postmodern-church-madness/
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November 5, 2008

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Roger Saner said:

@Stephen: yes, I’m moving to Cape Town next year – will probably be staying in Obz. My fiance (wife by then!) will be studying a Masters in Diversity Studies at UCT for 2 years.

@Philip: you’re quite right – you didn’t mention “heresy” but rather spoke about “unorthodox.” Plenty of people think I’m unorthodox, even in the comments I added to your post, so I’m interested (and happy!) to find that you don’t think at least some of them are unorthodox.
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November 10, 2008

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Graeme Codrington said:

DysfunctionalParrot,

I checked out the webpage link you provided. I agree with your analysis 99%. Churches that dumb down Jesus’ message and focus on marketing a watered down Gospel are the real heretics. I include in this group almost all those churches associated with Christian television, with their constant requests for money… sorry, I mean, their constant offering of a blessing in exchange for me sowing some seed to them!

The 1% disagreement I have with you is that you think this is what emerging church is trying to do. In fact, if you read the emerging church authors, you will find they are even more virulent in their opposition to the churches you are opposed to.

You are incorrect to think this is what “post modern” church is. You are definitely wrong in thinking that this is what the emerging church is trying to achieve.

I would highly recommend that you read “A Generous Orthodoxy” by Brian McLaren.
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November 10, 2008

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Sam Groves said:

Seeing as our church is no longer listed on your blog roll Steve, I guess we would now be classified as a submerging church. Real pity because our dynamic worship leader just bought some Crocs this past week (they’ve just become ‘in’ in Pietermaritzburg).
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November 11, 2008

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Jeff Murray said:

Sam, your comments kill me!
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November 11, 2008

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Stephen said:

I’m afraid the crocs resulted in your removal – although if you check under the ‘ministries I like’ tab you might just find your submerging church making an appearance.